Jonathan: recommends we table this topic
Ron: likes that dignity and respect added to anyone being able to participate;
Philip: Proposes: “We seek to build an atmosphere of love, safety, education, spiritual awareness, healing, and fun – a community center where we treat each other with dignity and respect and where we welcome anyone in the world to help or participate.”; seconded by Jonathan; all in favor
Ron: now we need to discuss how rules will be enforced; maybe we have a way to deal with each rule; maybe we just come up a general way to address issues; jonathan initially pushed for a judiciary committee; hope we can have mercy built into our structures; how do we enforce our motto and our rules
Heather: maybe we could start with our first rule and make our way down
Ron: we do have three enforcement policies already in place – alcohol – if you are caught with alcohol on the property, you are kicked out for a week, twice – a month, three times – two months and you have to meet with the director; also, people have been kicked out of the building for not doing a mediation
Ron: have heard a criticism for the alcohol rule – sometimes it might be like a game – someone gets busted and then gets kicked out and then comes back; maybe who can enforce the alcohol issue is something we could talk about; generally, if there is a judiciary or membership meeting, seems like this would be a last resort – many issues, we would need ways to work with them in the moment;
Tiffany: with the alcohol, two warnings and then have the law step in;
Heather: what if staff isn’t cutting it anymore – if the staff is too loose; some things are just loose;
Matt: are there going to be rules about people passing out in the bathroom for a while;
Sigi: yesterday, cleaning up around the rose’s wall, seems like there is still drinking going on around the property – all of these cans remind sigi about the bad things that people have experienced
Anna: thoughts on how we deal with people having alcohol on the property – if someone is drinking, gone for a week or whatever; seems like we might kick someone out for having a sealed container, but then someone can quietly pass out for a while, and then it takes a lot of staff time to deal with it, and that there is no consequence for that;
Matt: definitely want to thank people for not driving matt down to jail; agree that he should have been kicked out; still willing to go through some process for having to deal with his drunkenness;
Ron: understand why alcohol can’t be on the property; alcohol on the property is a big problem; always want to have sympathy for alcoholics; at the end of the day, alcoholics are going to drink alcohol; if we never let people in who were drunk, seems like we need to make space for people so that they could possibly find hope; if they are just closed out of community life, maybe they won’t find something to help; with drunk and belligerent people, three options, sit down and shut up, leave, or the police can come and take a person away; had a couple people pass out recently, and seems like we should do something to give someone a wake up call;
Matt: was going to talk about the idea about a one week AA program;
Philip: wants to welcome people who are drunk and intoxicated; we have a unique farm that we can connect people to; difficulty comes when the intoxicated person isn’t themselves – hard to know how to enforce things – mediation?; are we going to wait to do mediation when someone is sober
Heather: people come here drunk regularly and start fights; teig is a functional drunk most of the time, but when he starts drinking, he becomes annoying; there are people who come here drunk and start fights; drunk people seem to get special privileges;
Sigi: not sure if this rule is still in effect, but we used to say if someone was over by roses drinking, it was the same as doing it here at OCP; are we going to get to that point again where someone cant drink on roses property just as one cant drink here
Ron: wants to remind us what Mike Farrand has said – “what do we do with the drunks?”; we probably aren’t going to find a solution to the drunks; shame can often perpetuate the cycle of addiction; not sure what to think about this, but it seems like it is mentioned a lot; maybe we need to be talking about the person who becomes difficult to deal with or the person who comes here drunk regularly; maybe these are the people we focus on;
Mark: don’t want to complicate things, but there are a couple different things we are talking about; if there is someone here on the property and under the influence, there needs to be a staff response – the other issue is the person who is constantly under the influence; current on site response – if they don’t constitute a danger to themselves or ocp, and they are willing to be quite, maybe they can stay; sometimes, when someone is really drunk on special event nights or during movies; maybe the person who constantly comes drunk needs to be dealt with;
Sigi: there was a guy who came here who never did anything, he just sat; then his PO came and said that it was the longest time in his adult life that he hadn’t been in jail;
Tiffany: if someone comes here drunk, they shouldn’t come here; maybe come back the next day
Matt: can probably agree that things should happen to a person who gets belligerent; but not if someone isn’t doing anything; problem isn’t if people come here drunk, but if someone is causing problems; people coming in here with alcohol need to be dealt with;
Ron: interested in Mark’s initial contact concept; if someone is here drunk, maybe we go talk right away, but then it is hard to talk to someone who is drunk; something about talking to someone who is drunk right away seems right; something about losing consciousness seems like something we should deal with; some people need to just hit rock bottom – if we enable people, this may keep people from getting sober – this may be one of our failures in the past;
Sadie: if you come here drunk, we ought to meet you at the door and tell you to come back later;
John: talking about the alcoholics who come here, but what about the people who come here intoxicated on drugs, etc. that aren’t using alcohol; are we going to address both of these with the same rules;
Sigi: since we are talking so much about alcoholics – maybe we should go to some resources – to a professional – to help us think about this topic;
Matt: another thing to think about – people who come here drunk are homeless; mostly homeless; what you would be doing is setting rules for the homeless
Ron: the statement on our wall sets us up for some tension – how can we keep it safe and fun while still reaching out to the alcoholic and drug addict; wouldn’t want to see us breathalizing and pee screening in order to let people come in; it is a heck of a lot better now than in the old days;
Sigi: would like to ask all these questions to the alcoholics; maybe identify a few people and ask them these questions;
Johnny: been struggling a lot with alcohol – was asked by someone to take some time off; what we need here is we need more productive thinking – what can we do for the people who want to take a drink as soon as they wake up; there are 5-10 people sitting outside – maybe people just need something to do to feel productive; just having something for someone to do – even write out a plan for the day – by the end of the day – how would then end of the day look;
Philip: appreciates Johnny being honest and sharing
Sigi: wonderful idea – maybe there can be a breakfast in the morning – specifically for people who think about drinking first thing in the morning;
Ron: likes the idea in general, but some concerns about finding something for someone to do; some people get sober by becoming alcoholics; how do you get someone to sit down and write the list of what they want to do each day;
Heather: have to agree with what Johnny said – need to stay busy because have been struggling with wanting to drink; there is also NCP – they open up early; nick and Rachel sarah have plenty for people to do; there is a new noon meeting at the club
Ron: about the farm, have heard there is a real undercurrent of the farm being like slave labor; most of the work is on the farm – try to keep work to 30-40 hours; the main focus is recovery;
Johnny: have heard a lot of negative things about the farm – do have children and a lovely wife – as far as family, is the farm just for
Ron: likes that dignity and respect added to anyone being able to participate;
Philip: Proposes: “We seek to build an atmosphere of love, safety, education, spiritual awareness, healing, and fun – a community center where we treat each other with dignity and respect and where we welcome anyone in the world to help or participate.”; seconded by Jonathan; all in favor
Ron: now we need to discuss how rules will be enforced; maybe we have a way to deal with each rule; maybe we just come up a general way to address issues; jonathan initially pushed for a judiciary committee; hope we can have mercy built into our structures; how do we enforce our motto and our rules
Heather: maybe we could start with our first rule and make our way down
Ron: we do have three enforcement policies already in place – alcohol – if you are caught with alcohol on the property, you are kicked out for a week, twice – a month, three times – two months and you have to meet with the director; also, people have been kicked out of the building for not doing a mediation
Ron: have heard a criticism for the alcohol rule – sometimes it might be like a game – someone gets busted and then gets kicked out and then comes back; maybe who can enforce the alcohol issue is something we could talk about; generally, if there is a judiciary or membership meeting, seems like this would be a last resort – many issues, we would need ways to work with them in the moment;
Tiffany: with the alcohol, two warnings and then have the law step in;
Heather: what if staff isn’t cutting it anymore – if the staff is too loose; some things are just loose;
Matt: are there going to be rules about people passing out in the bathroom for a while;
Sigi: yesterday, cleaning up around the rose’s wall, seems like there is still drinking going on around the property – all of these cans remind sigi about the bad things that people have experienced
Anna: thoughts on how we deal with people having alcohol on the property – if someone is drinking, gone for a week or whatever; seems like we might kick someone out for having a sealed container, but then someone can quietly pass out for a while, and then it takes a lot of staff time to deal with it, and that there is no consequence for that;
Matt: definitely want to thank people for not driving matt down to jail; agree that he should have been kicked out; still willing to go through some process for having to deal with his drunkenness;
Ron: understand why alcohol can’t be on the property; alcohol on the property is a big problem; always want to have sympathy for alcoholics; at the end of the day, alcoholics are going to drink alcohol; if we never let people in who were drunk, seems like we need to make space for people so that they could possibly find hope; if they are just closed out of community life, maybe they won’t find something to help; with drunk and belligerent people, three options, sit down and shut up, leave, or the police can come and take a person away; had a couple people pass out recently, and seems like we should do something to give someone a wake up call;
Matt: was going to talk about the idea about a one week AA program;
Philip: wants to welcome people who are drunk and intoxicated; we have a unique farm that we can connect people to; difficulty comes when the intoxicated person isn’t themselves – hard to know how to enforce things – mediation?; are we going to wait to do mediation when someone is sober
Heather: people come here drunk regularly and start fights; teig is a functional drunk most of the time, but when he starts drinking, he becomes annoying; there are people who come here drunk and start fights; drunk people seem to get special privileges;
Sigi: not sure if this rule is still in effect, but we used to say if someone was over by roses drinking, it was the same as doing it here at OCP; are we going to get to that point again where someone cant drink on roses property just as one cant drink here
Ron: wants to remind us what Mike Farrand has said – “what do we do with the drunks?”; we probably aren’t going to find a solution to the drunks; shame can often perpetuate the cycle of addiction; not sure what to think about this, but it seems like it is mentioned a lot; maybe we need to be talking about the person who becomes difficult to deal with or the person who comes here drunk regularly; maybe these are the people we focus on;
Mark: don’t want to complicate things, but there are a couple different things we are talking about; if there is someone here on the property and under the influence, there needs to be a staff response – the other issue is the person who is constantly under the influence; current on site response – if they don’t constitute a danger to themselves or ocp, and they are willing to be quite, maybe they can stay; sometimes, when someone is really drunk on special event nights or during movies; maybe the person who constantly comes drunk needs to be dealt with;
Sigi: there was a guy who came here who never did anything, he just sat; then his PO came and said that it was the longest time in his adult life that he hadn’t been in jail;
Tiffany: if someone comes here drunk, they shouldn’t come here; maybe come back the next day
Matt: can probably agree that things should happen to a person who gets belligerent; but not if someone isn’t doing anything; problem isn’t if people come here drunk, but if someone is causing problems; people coming in here with alcohol need to be dealt with;
Ron: interested in Mark’s initial contact concept; if someone is here drunk, maybe we go talk right away, but then it is hard to talk to someone who is drunk; something about talking to someone who is drunk right away seems right; something about losing consciousness seems like something we should deal with; some people need to just hit rock bottom – if we enable people, this may keep people from getting sober – this may be one of our failures in the past;
Sadie: if you come here drunk, we ought to meet you at the door and tell you to come back later;
John: talking about the alcoholics who come here, but what about the people who come here intoxicated on drugs, etc. that aren’t using alcohol; are we going to address both of these with the same rules;
Sigi: since we are talking so much about alcoholics – maybe we should go to some resources – to a professional – to help us think about this topic;
Matt: another thing to think about – people who come here drunk are homeless; mostly homeless; what you would be doing is setting rules for the homeless
Ron: the statement on our wall sets us up for some tension – how can we keep it safe and fun while still reaching out to the alcoholic and drug addict; wouldn’t want to see us breathalizing and pee screening in order to let people come in; it is a heck of a lot better now than in the old days;
Sigi: would like to ask all these questions to the alcoholics; maybe identify a few people and ask them these questions;
Johnny: been struggling a lot with alcohol – was asked by someone to take some time off; what we need here is we need more productive thinking – what can we do for the people who want to take a drink as soon as they wake up; there are 5-10 people sitting outside – maybe people just need something to do to feel productive; just having something for someone to do – even write out a plan for the day – by the end of the day – how would then end of the day look;
Philip: appreciates Johnny being honest and sharing
Sigi: wonderful idea – maybe there can be a breakfast in the morning – specifically for people who think about drinking first thing in the morning;
Ron: likes the idea in general, but some concerns about finding something for someone to do; some people get sober by becoming alcoholics; how do you get someone to sit down and write the list of what they want to do each day;
Heather: have to agree with what Johnny said – need to stay busy because have been struggling with wanting to drink; there is also NCP – they open up early; nick and Rachel sarah have plenty for people to do; there is a new noon meeting at the club
Ron: about the farm, have heard there is a real undercurrent of the farm being like slave labor; most of the work is on the farm – try to keep work to 30-40 hours; the main focus is recovery;
Johnny: have heard a lot of negative things about the farm – do have children and a lovely wife – as far as family, is the farm just for
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