Ron: what about enforcement of our decided rules; one idea in the past was that maybe we could have a sort of judiciary committee to deal with issues that keep coming up; could a person just be brought to a membership meeting?; maybe we need to have some discussion about membership meetings;
Michael: always one for leniency; what if someone gets caught here three times; maybe the first time someone gets caught with alcohol there is some leniency;
Ron: seems like we should think in terms of rehabilitative ideas as well as punishments
Jonathan: maybe we could go rule by rule and talk about consequences
Ron: current way that we think about alcohol, is a first offense is out for one week, second offense, out for one month, third out until you come back and ask to be let back in; there is some confusion about someone who has unopened alcohol having a punishment and someone who is drunk everyday has no consequence; maybe we want to ask someone caught three times to come to the membership
Gary: what if someone comes back for a third time and gets caught again?; what happens at that point
Philip: after a third time, you enter some sort of “case management” that some group here at OCP is in charge of being a part of;
Ron: like the idea that the person comes to the membership without many guidelines so that each case can be looked at;
Michael: is there any way a person could be banned permanently – never to come back; maybe someone could have a “sponsor” here at OCP like AA has sponsors;
Sigi: would like to talk to some of the guys who are really struggling with alcohol and see what they think
Ron: sigi reminds us that we used to tell people that the Rose’s property was the same as OCP when it comes to drinking;
Gary: not having the cops called is pretty lenient – we should have no tolerance with this
Sigi: if someone drinks, maybe there is some criteria that we create so that someone could get some help and stay around; maybe requiring someone to go to AA or something
Ron: a week doesn’t seem like a big deal, and it lets the newcomer know that there is no tolerance; how do we make a statement and stick to it for someone that wants to choose an option instead of getting kicked out
Heather: people know the staff cant catch things all the time; people are smart enough to hide drinking even on the property; why not have someone gone for a month who gets caught once?
Sigi: sort of feeling the no tolerance idea that gary talked about;
Philip: about the case management idea, we could talk about this later as it might apply to a person;
Gary: can’t force anyone to go to AA;
Ron: seems like we are saying that alcohol (open or closed), you get kicked out for a week, and the second time, you are kicked out for a month, and the membership will then decide what happens next – seems like all in favor
Ron: is there a way to transition to a member run community center so that the staff isn’t responsible to uphold all the rules all the time –
Gary: if it is a friend, it might be easier to talk to them; if it is someone you don’t know, it might be harder; seems like it would be smart to address a staff member first;
Ron: have a picture of our membership is a group that has some new authority – to uphold a code of behavior;
Michael: two things, what are the legal rights regarding pouring out someone’s alcohol – if someone is drunk on the property but not currently drinking, what does our policy one this look like?
Cat: people stop in to OCP to have a beer and then leave; there are lots of spots for people to stop in quickly for a beer and then leave;
Gary: maybe there is like a neighborhood watch for alcoholics – a group keeping an eye out for people drinking;
Ron: what would it look like if the membership is empowered like a staff; in the old testament, two people had to witness something in order to bring it to light – maybe members or staff members
Sigi: thinking about what gary said about no tolerance; cant go anywhere else in Harrisonburg and be drunk without having someone saying something to you;
Gary: seems like telling a staff person about the person drinking is the safest way;
Ron: is it really the members responsibility to tell a staff person if someone is drinking on the property;
Mark: leaning towards the idea of bringing it to a staff person; a person who is already breaking the rules knowingly, that person isn’t going to care unless it is a staff person;
Gary: seems like it a members responsibility to tell a staff person;
Ron: what about Rose’s property? – maybe this is too big of a topic to talk about now
Ron: other issues that have come up are: very drunk in the building, drunk in the building over and over, and passed out in the building
Gary: as much as I don’t like waking up in jail hung over, it is safer sometimes than getting hit by a car or getting in a fight
Philip: the chief of police says that there isn’t enough room and there isn’t enough time to deal with a drunk person
Mark: it is a matter of degree, if someone is unconscious, you are a threat to yourself if you are incapable of taking care of yourself; seen people leave here at 2pm who had no business walking around town; perfectly ok to have the boys in blue come down
Ron: we aren’t talking about calling the police everytime someone is drunk, but when it is necessary;
Sigi: at what point did we change the policy – we have had 5 people who have died of alcoholism; when is the time to draw the line with alcoholics;
Ron: more people die in addiction than get better; we have also welcomed people here who are alcoholics who have gotten help; it is hard and a fine line; how many times can you be passed out or drunk here before getting called in front of the membership; for the obnoxious drunk – either be quite and sit down, leave, or we will call the police; can a member just put a topic on the agenda concerning someone being drunk
Philip: want to nuance sigi’s comment – they died while considered a community member here because we accepted them and other places haven’t accepted them;
Sigi: we should identify the people who have a serious problem, we should talk with them
Ron: had a lot of good friendships with alcoholics – a lot of friendship came out of some kind of mutual love but also a desire NOT to control that person; maybe as an organization we shouldn’t make a decision about someone who drinks every day but follows the behavior code of OCP;
Ron: if you are belligerently drunk here or passed out, it is the same pattern as having alcohol on the property;
Gary: how do you talk to someone who is unconscious; if someone comes here drunk, that is definitely a concern; an addict wont stop themselves, rather have someone call the police
Crystal: have learned a lot since being at OCP; ocp is a very loving place, but if people keep getting another chance, they may never hit bottom, and one maybe needs to hit bottom in order to make a change;
Teig: those bathroom doors – if someone passes out in the bathroom, there should be a way to open those doors
Ron: considering adding to the kicked out for one week, one month thing, that if someone is so intoxicated that they are belligerent or so intoxicated that they are passed out, the same consequences of one week/one month apply
Teig: how does one define belligerent?
Ron: seems like the group is feeling like the staff has the ability to make a call about “belligerent”
Mark: have no problem with someone being here being drunk as long as they know when to shut up;
Sadie: don’t think we should be enabling the drunks by letting them be here;
Gary: think there are a lot of categories for drunks; seems like we should have no tolerance for drunks at all
Ron: seems like no tolerance leads to breathalyzers at the door;
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